Curse

Tender Care · Aug 27, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Hallo peeps, i really don't understand why it's so hard to sell a max, non-inscr. weapon with +5 energy, not modded for caster.

I know u will reply: cos +15^50 it's better for dmg, but still +5 energy is good for those classes that have not so much energy or energy regen.

I had many perfect req 9 zealous bows with +5 energy farming the UW but was impossible to sell them.

Anyone else agree with me or you all think it's better dealing +15% dmg^ 50 (NOTE: while health is above 50%) then having +5 energy ALWAYS?

phan · Aug 27, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

The +5 Energy is a waist of damage ; need energy ? Swap then

/closethread

Etta · Aug 27, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Casters don't use bow. They use 1 handed weapon and a shield or a focus in the other hand.

ragnagard · Aug 27, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

I think:

+5 on warriors weapons: They are damage dealers, they commonly use non high energy builds but lot of adrenaline skills builds. Just use skills that gives adrenaline and that's it. The +5 energy would give only opportunity to use 1 skill. Better hit X times with +damage weapon.

+5 on bows: unless it can have its use, as a ranger i tell you: zealous bows are "just" used on barrage+ sliver builds wich are just for farming or concrete areas. Given the expertise + zealous energy recharge, you almost get same energy you spent. And in that places, you should deal damage too...

maybe i'm wrong....

Productivity · Aug 27, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Because energy usage is determined not by max energy, but by natural regen + energy management skills. Using a +5e weapon will only get you +5e in any one combat, ie. one attack skill. So if you use that on a Power Attack and do +40 damage say, that's all you get. +40 damage against the potential 100s of damage that a +15% damage mod will do.

ALF71BE · Aug 27, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

When in my ranger I usually run these bows.

I mean, the damage is negligible as you don't even have 12 marksmanship most of the time (for most it is 14-10-10), and bow DPS is pretty low considering the reload+flight time, so I don't quite see the point of 15^50 when you're spreading conditions, BHA'ing or crippling.

In Barrage+Splinter I use zealous + 15^50; as it was stated, you get back the energy anyways.

In daggers must be the same thing, as it has a very low base damage.

Zidane Ortef · Aug 27, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Melee classes have energy management out the wahzoo.

Warrior - Either a full adren bar or for more energy intensive bar Warriors Endurance does the trick.

Assassins- Zealous weapons + Critical eye+Critical Agility + decent rank in Critical Strikes is +5nrg per critical hit.

Paragons - Leadership need a say more

Ranger- Expertise anyone

Dervish- Zealous Renewal and Mysticism

As goes for Casters

Necromancers- Soulreaping

Elementalist- Attunements + Glyph of Lesser Energy

Ritualist- Offering of Spirit

Monk- High energy set for PvP and for PvE if you run out of energy your a horrible monk.

Mesmer- have many interrupts that give back insane energy and the new Tease and Lyssa's Aura are some other skills worth mentioning.

So unless its a +5nrg Axe, Sword, Spear then its not gonna be much of a use to anyone but a farmer or a PvPers Defensive set.

As for the Proph part of it, Nightfall and EotN gave us the ability to make our own weapons with our own mods, and own skins.

free_fall · Aug 27, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Ah, perhaps this is the place where someone can clarify this for me.

I thought that the 15^50 damage only applied to the weapon hit itself, and that the damage from a skill was added on top of that.

So, 15-22 x 15% + skill damage.

Are you saying that it's actually the other way around? 15-22 + skill damage x 15%.

I use both 15^50 and +5 and never really noticed much difference between the amount of damage I do, leading me to believe that the first example is the correct mechanic, in which case the small difference would seem to argue for using the +5E weapon.

Dronte · Aug 27, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Energy management > maximum energy

/endthread

Productivity · Aug 27, 2008, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by free_fall

So, 15-22 x 15% + skill damage.

This is exactly how it works. The point is, +5e only lets you squeeze off one attack skill in any given combat, whereas +15% on base damage deals potentially 100s of extra damage in difficult/long combats which is where it counts.

ButterMeUp · Aug 27, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I Believe a PvP situation only really ever demands a +5e on a bow

I Frequently use that mod for Cripshooting

Thats about its only use beside other high energy requirement marksmanship builds.

Orange Milk · Aug 27, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

In PvP I carry a +5 Recurve in my weapon sets, but rarly need to use it, Unless I'm crip shot, then it gets used a bit.

There are some "pro" Rangers who only use +5's but If you know how to manage your energy and have your Expertise set right, and don't simply spam interupts then you really don't need it unless it's a long drawn out battle in one spot very little movement, it's movement that allows you to regen energy while not attacking.

It Kinda was a must in TA when Ranger bars used to carry Purge Sig, swap to a negative energy set to Purge, then back to the +5 Bow IF your lost too much energy durning the purge.

It also has to do with the bow type, +5 on a recurve is good, on a long Bow maybe, and thats about it, I only carry +5 on Recurves (One Posion and one Crippling depending on my build) a +5 on anything else is really useless.

Now I know some of you are gonna come back and saw "NO WAY, I use a +5 on a Flatbow with barrage and a zealous string blah blah blah" but to tell you the truth, Flatbows suck and if you need to use a Zealous while Barraging your doing something wrong.

Zan Usi Quan · Aug 27, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I prefer +5energy over 15^50 on any weapon with any class

Marverick · Aug 27, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Martial one-handed weapons are used by casters so +5e works on them. +5e on them suck for damage dealers, though.

Rangers... it's often a good idea to have a +5e swap (not +5e on main weapon). For cripshot, I carry a +5e Recurve and Longbow in case I run out of energy and desperately need that last Crippling Shot.

zelgadissan · Aug 27, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Unless you suck and don't weapon swap, almost all casters have a one-handed martial+shield set, in which the martial weapon is +5 energy. I personally use a spear so I can attack from long range to trigger [Mark of Pain], some people just use a sword/axe so that they have the +5e.

However, for non-caster classes, it's a waste. If you really need +5e on a Warrior build, you need to meet my good friend adrenaline. If you really need +5e on an Assassin build, you need to get a better attack chain. If you really need +5e on a Dervish build, then you're wasting 15^50 on the strongest weapon in the game. If you really need +5e on a Paragon, just save yourself some time and uninstall. Rangers are the only ones with a potential +5e need, and it's already been stated - Cripshot.

Cebe · Aug 27, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

One of the few weapons I'd consider using a +5 energy mod on for use on a non-caster character would be Daggers. The +15% damage on 7-17 doesn't make much difference, and the +5 energy can be handy in getting off more expensive attack chains.

Having said that, on most caster weapons I favour a HCT (10%) or a HSR (10%) inscription instead of the +energy, since at the end of the day, +5 energy on a caster doesn't make an awful lot of difference. It's always nice as a swap though.

free_fall · Aug 27, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

This is exactly how it works. The point is, +5e only lets you squeeze off one attack skill in any given combat, whereas +15% on base damage deals potentially 100s of extra damage in difficult/long combats which is where it counts.

Thanks for verifying that but I think you're follow-up explanation is open to some debate.

15% on a 15-22 sword is 2.2 to 3.1 additional damage. Asumming you hit for 22 with every strike, it would still take 34 hits to effect an extra 100+ damage (102, to be precise) during that "difficul/long combat". During which time, with your E regenerating, you could squeeze a few extra E skills, rather than just the one, depending on the recharge time of the skills you use.

Tyla · Aug 27, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

The only two weapons I would use it on is:

A Crippling Recurve Bow of Fortitude, which will only be switched to when I'm using Cripshot or Pin Down.

Daggers, and that's only if I need the energy for the spike or I'm under death penalty and need the energy.

Apart from that, it's a pretty bad mod for martials when we have zealous mods. Energy management > extra energy. Free damage is good.

Oh, and players who aren't complete idiots will utilise as many needed weapon slots as they can, unless they don't have the money or they don't have the gear from the priest of balthazar yet. There is absolutely no reason not to weaponswap.

Damian979 · Aug 27, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

One of the few weapons I'd consider using a +5 energy mod on for use on a non-caster character would be Daggers. The +15% damage on 7-17 doesn't make much difference, and the +5 energy can be handy in getting off more expensive attack chains.

Agree. The only +15% weapon I use on my sin is also customized for the extra +20% and I use that when I am running something like [asuran scan] on my bar. When you are attacking every 0.88 sec with crit agility, 250+ damage death blossoms can be rather juicy.

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 27, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I use +5e while playing cripshot sometimes and on daggers as they don't do much dmg.
The only reason I would ever see a war using a +5e mod would be as a last effort to use shock in a spike. Though you shouldn't be getting youself into that situation anyway.